22 or 24mm

[boosted ej8]

I searched for some info on a rear sway bar and found out more then I knew before but still need some help

I'm finishing off my suspension for my car
Right now I just have Function & Form type 1 coilovers
10k front 6k rear
JIC magic front strut bar
Megan racing rear strut bar
I have a rear disc waiting to go on my coupe with all new energy bushings

I will be adding function 7 lca's as well

There are two kits available for the ASR subframe brace
with the CTR 22mm swaybar with blox endlinks and the subframe brace
or the same kit with ASR endlinks and a ASR 24mm rear swaybar

So my question is will the 24mm be to big?
I'm running the stock 22mm in the front I believe its 22mm anyways
96 ex coupe btw

I want to avoid switching to the si/ctr/gsr front sway bar since I already have a stocker
And I would have to swap the bottom shock mount and front LCA's I think

I know the 24mm being bigger then the front will induce a little oversteer
But will there be a noticeable difference with the 22mm ctr rear swaybar?
I really want to go towards the 22mm but not if its not going to show any signs of improvement and be a waste of money

Not really looking for a OEM besides the CTR
and don't want to go with del sol or gsr or anyting like that either since I would have to source end links from them as well.

Thanks!

[lastresort576]

well since you dont want a 15mm/14mm i would say go with the 22mm. since the 15mm seems to do plenty on my sol.

[boosted ej8]

well since you dont want a 15mm/14mm i would say go with the 22mm. since the 15mm seems to do plenty on my sol.

I want to go with the larger on since my coupe is a tad heavier then your sol
and also in the future ill be b20v-t
so throwing that extra weight around will deff need some extra help ya know?

will I notice much with the 22mm though?

[Speedy]

the 22mm w/ the 6k rate will give you a shit ton of oversteer. big sway bars+soft rates=loose back end

[lastresort576]

wanting it because of having a lil more weight is a good idea. the itr/ctr we designed with auto-x in mind and is considered stock to be one of the top auto-x vehicles, and they've got plenty of turn in. also when i corner weighted my sol...it weighed in at 2418#

[Unlimitedpotential]

i like my car to kick the rear out... but i did dial the tires a bit more front and rear for my girls driving habits... so if yours looking for over stear bigger is better... but 22 should be plenty!

[angrychicken]

I'd def go with a USDM ITR sized rear sway. That should help out, plus you could source bushings easier if needed.

[boosted ej8]

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

I think I will probably go with the 22mm for now from the ctr
even though the USDM ITR is only 22mm as well whats the difference?


And then soon after Ill just replace the OEM front bar with a CTR 26mm as well which should in turn correct my massive over steer correct?

I'm not looking for a super stiff auto x car
just something that will keep my body flat during spirited driving and better handling as well I will need something to keep power to the ground
which would be more front

haha I'm terribly indecisive

[angrychicken]

Someone correct me if I put out bad info.
I believe the JDM ITR has 23mm rear sway and the USDM ITR and CTR has the 22mm .
The bushing for the D brackets are easier to source for the USDM version.
Out of curiosity, what tires are you rolling?

[boosted ej8]

yes the JDM ITR has the 23mm and the USDM is the 22mm
I will be on 205/50/15's

and is there any difference between the CTR and USDM ITR?

[Volume 8]

Well, I have a 24mm Integra sway bar in front and the ASR kit with the USDM 22mm bar out back. Going from no bars to both of those was a huge difference. If you have no rear bar you will notice a huge difference in handling, the car will be much easier to rotate. I can't say what you should get but just wanted to relate my experience.

[boosted ej8]

Well, I have a 24mm Integra sway bar in front and the ASR kit with the USDM 22mm bar out back. Going from no bars to both of those was a huge difference. If you have no rear bar you will notice a huge difference in handling, the car will be much easier to rotate. I can't say what you should get but just wanted to relate my experience.

Yea the EJ8 already has a 22mm in the front
I know some companys sell a front and rear swaybar kit
but deff not looking to drop that kind of cash
but as speedy said

the 22mm w/ the 6k rate will give you a shit ton of oversteer. big sway bars+soft rates=loose back end

And thats for sure not what I want
Thinking I might have to go with something a little smaller
Maybe a cusco 17mm?
they seem to be about the same price as the CTR from PWJDM
also with a 17 I wouldn't need a subframe brace right away
I would get one a few weeks later but I guess it wouldn't be mandatory

[spadam]

No difference between the 22mm usdm itr and ctr bars.

I would suggest starting with a smaller bar if you can, especially if you have the stock front bar. Its a balance thing. Anythingbigger than say a 19mm really needs to be paired with a 24mm front (teg, del sol vtec) and even then, unless your auto-x'ing, a 22mm is gonna be just right. Depending on your spring rates it should rotate nicely too.

Florida summer storms + tail happy car = :scared::scared:

[angrychicken]

the 22mm w/ the 6k rate will give you a shit ton of oversteer. big sway bars+soft rates=loose back end

I'm not sure if I agree with this.
I think you would be fine with a 22mm rear sway even if you had stock springs/shocks/struts.
If anyone has sanctioned race experience thinks I'm whack, please let me know. I don't want to be putting out bad info.
In my experience stiffer coilover combos do very little to handling dynamics when compared to sway bars. Stiffer coilovers are more like "fine-tuning" and mainly allow the driver to get better feedback while driving and provide increased response.
I would have no reservation in driving a civic with a stock front sway bar and a rear itr bar while running stock suspension. In fact I'd prefer that set up to another similar car with big dollar coilovers and no sway bars. This set usually allows you to get some rotation (what you want) when your pushing your car, but it's not like your going to call into a full opposite lock and bust a drift while driving 10mph around a street corner while johnny law is watching.

In addition to all that, you mentioned your tire size, but not the exact tires your running.

Different tires are composed of different compounds made for different surfaces, life span, and driving styles. Tires are the single most important component in creating performance handling dynamics. That's why I was asking what you are rolling on.

[boosted ej8]

I have toyo proxes 4's
very sticky for me anyways
i grip very well with them

[spadam]

I'm not sure if I agree with this.
I think you would be fine with a 22mm rear sway even if you had stock springs/shocks/struts.

I'm totally on your side here. Anyone ever driven a bone stock itr? Yeah, its got stiffer springs than any other teg, but theyre still wayyy softer than the kidney busters we love so much. And we just happen to be talking about putting the sway bars that come stock on that car on our cars.

And its by far the most "rotatable" stock FF car I've ever driven, and a rather capable competition car it that stock form.

The general school of thought, as I've been taught at least, is that your initial turn in is going to be determined mostly by your spring rates. Your mid corner feel is going to rely on your sway bar rates, as their job is to help prevent the chassis from settling its weight all the way to the outside as the lateral forces load up.

They are far from independent entities though, and should be thought of as part of a system. There are places for high spring rates and small sway bars, say a track thats nice and smooth but has many really quick transitions. On a really bumpy track, however, having a 6 or 700 pound spring in the back of the car to get it to rotate is going to cause the car to go skipping down the straights and through the sweepers with the back end off the ground. (Sebring comes to mind!!) This is where you would keep your spring rates relatively low to allow the suspension to do its work and then use a larger bar to keep the car flat in the corners.

We tend to think in terms of what we see people doing at auto-x's, probably because this is where most of us get our chassis setup experience. Keep in mind though that the setups that work on these absurdly tight and relatively low-speed courses are gross exaggerations of anything that would be used on an open track car or a street car. They are fast setups for what they're used for, but are by no means "balanced" setups. Another point is that open track cars usually have some sort of aero treatment on them, which allows them to run really high spring rates in the back. This works by letting the stiff springs rotate the car at low speed when there isn't much downforce on the rear, and then when the car gets up to speed the wing plants the back end with up to a few hundred pounds of downforce. Most street going cars experience at least some lift at speed. This combined with really stiff spring could feasibly send you flying off of that on ramp that you love rippin around so much.

All that being said, I'm currently running 450lb/in fronts and 500lb/in rears with a 24mm front bar and 22mm rear (stock usdm itr) and I have definitely had some intense moments coming through some fast sweeping turns. Rotation is not necessarily a good trait at triple digit speeds.

[angrychicken]

Word, very well put spadam.
"Balanced" is a contextual word in automotive racing & suspension dynamics.
One of the reasons why I love autox is because most set ups (depending on class) can be street driven. Autocrossing is based on "real world" speeds and what you can potentially run into while driving legally, courses are set up to confine your driving to speeds that you may encounter in the "real world".
A well balanced autocross car usually equates an uber-awesome streetable car.

[boosted ej8]

Not only have you guys completely re-educated me on any sway bar information I have decided to go with a 18mm cusco with the 6 k rear springs
This being said my car will mostly be a street machine
Will it be used in strip/auto crossing/track days?
sure
But I am not building it for just one event you know?
So I am going with something far superior then stock yet still street able seeing as it is my DD
I will let you guys know how this turns out

[angrychicken]

Cusco makes some uber-tightish with plenty of bling.
But before you snag that bar, I'd do a price comparison between that Cusco and an OEM bar.

[boosted ej8]

Surprise!
I had only mentioned it to my g/f
That it was one I was considering
and guess what will be here on Thursday?
An early Christmas present
haha so guess the cusco it is~

[Volume 8]

Nice!! Definitely let us know how you like the handling once you get it installed.

[G-rat]

some good suspension info in this thread:TU:

[boosted ej8]

some good suspension info in this thread:TU:

+1
Really informative thread

I will let you all know how it does when I have it installed and am able to do some test driving

[MS. EJ8]

get the 24 mm!!! thats what i have!!!

oh and i have a couple asr subframe kits ( with asr swaybar and all hardware) instock if you need a kit!!! silver, black, and blue!!! lmk! 390 shipped. check my post

or if u want just the subframe, its 190 shipped! :)

[boosted ej8]

390 shipped for the subframe brace!?
that seems a little high to me
I have a hook up through a buddy of mine
So thank you, I will keep you in mind
If I need anything else

[MS. EJ8]

390 shipped for the subframe brace!?
that seems a little high to me
I have a hook up through a buddy of mine
So thank you, I will keep you in mind
If I need anything else

read it all.. the subframe, swaybar, and hardware kit. lol not just the subframe. the subframe alone is 190 shipped.

[MS. EJ8]

there, lol i made it more clear.

[boosted ej8]

oh haha i was going to say
damnnnn
well seeing as I already have a swaybar and endlinks
and I can get the subframe brace cheaper
I'm gonna have to go with what saves me money
but 190 shipped is a good price seeing as thats what most people want pre shipping!

[mattj]

i run a blox 24mm rear sway bar and the stock ej1 front sway bar, my body stays flat during autox's and has great turn in with a little bit of oversteer, i like the rear to kick out a bit as well. i have tein ss and integra disc brakes all the way around. I love my 24mm bar.

[boosted ej8]

A review from my friend who drove my car a few weeks ago

suspension recap is as follows;
Function & Form Type 1 coil overs 10k front 6k rear
or 559lb/in front 335 lb/in rear
JIC magic carbon fiber front strut bar
Megan racing rear bar
ASR subframe brace
cusco 18mm rear sway bar
Function 7 lca's
205/50/15 toyo proxes 4's on buddy club p1 SF's 15x6.5 +35



When I visited Florida last week, Daniel was gracious (and brave) enough to hand me his keys and go out to our local road course (aka the local airport). It is the only place around our area that has some turns.

I must say, his car is very well balanced. Just cruising through the streets, it was very comfortable and we weren't bouncing around everywhere. We got some gas and starting heading towards our playground. Heading out there, it was admiring his new GPS and radio block off. Once I made the turn onto our playground, all of that was forgotten. As I start ripping through gears, I come up to the first corner which is a banked right-hander and the car acted as if it is on rails. It hugs the corner perfectly and you can really feel all of the rear suspension doing its part. Every piece he has added works together in harmony and feels very solid. Every turn after that was the same story, with me gradually getting faster with each turn. Only on maybe two corners, I got a bit of oversteer but nothing uncontrollable, just enough for Daniel look a little nervous. lol

Overall, the car feels very neutral at higher speeds and extremely comfortable driving around town. If you are looking for a good DD/spirited driving suspension set-up, than you should follow his ways. I thought the 6k in the rear would have been to soft, but it proved not to be, although I don't think 8k would hurt. Using quality parts definitely proved to be worth the money just after this one drive.

[angrychicken]

Very nice review!